Join now - be part of our community!

Amazon Prime Lip Sync Problems

Patrandec
Member

Amazon Prime Lip Sync Problems

Hi All, 

 

I really, really hoped earlier in the year that the problems I was experiencing with my 8005C (2015) were a thing of the past. Unfortunately for the past couple of days the audio on the Amazon app on the TV has been badly out of sync. All of the other Amazon apps on e.g. my Sony Blu Ray player and PS4 are absolutely fine, and it's not affecting Netflix etc. So it is defnitely the TV. 

 

Is anyone else having the same problem and is there a cure for this irritating issue? It's the only app where I can access 4K playback so I'm keen to get it resolved. 

 

32 REPLIES 32
Anonymous
Not applicable

Hi there

 

You mentioned that the lip sync issues on the Amazon App have been bad for the last couple of days - has it worked properly before or??

 

Do you use the TVs internal speakers or do you have an external audio system such as a sound bar?

 

Have you tried a 'soft' reset of the TV ? - Press and hold the power button on the remote control for 10 seconds and the TV should reboot itself.  If that fails, try a factory reset of the TV iself and see if it helps?

 

Cheers

Nibor99
Member

Hi,

Hoping someone can help.

I have a 2015 Sony android TV - model KD43X8309CBU

Last night I tried Amazon Prime for the first time - terrible lip sync issues!!

 

I use a Canton Soundbase linked optically but even going through the TV speakers I have what seems to be a voice lip sync lag.

 

The TV was updated a few days ago and has the latest firmware.

 

I normally view through Virgin Media and have had no lipsync issues with them.

 

The wifi signal seems OK.

 

Does anyone have any ideas?

 

Many thanks

 

Robin

 

PS just tried another couple of Amazon Prime films these seem OK  The issue seems to be mainly with the Grand Tour Jeremy Clarkson show

 

profile.country.GB.title
TWLeebo
Member

This won't help but.....

 

I watched The Grand Tour in UHD on Amazon and had no lipsync issues. I've got the 8305 on the latest firmware, connected to a Yamaha 5.1 amp via optical cable (I have trouble with ARC that I can't be bothered to try to resolve!). I also watched Mr. Robot on Amazon and that was fine too.

 

I do get lipsync issues sometimes, mainly on video files that I'm playing through the stock video app.

profile.country.GB.title
NickJoh
Member

If the problem is only with 4K content your problem is very likley due to the fact that 4K images (2160 versus 1080) are 4 times the data and consequently can be 4 times the video delay which will allow the audio to arrive well  ahead of the image unless compensated for by an equivalent audio delay.

 

Since there is currently no synchronication data to define when audio and video were ever in sync (that may change in the future)  broadcasters are "supposed to" insert audio delays to match video delays every time they do anything that can delay the video (any digital video effect - DVE - will delay the video).  Unfortunately that is an open loop control system (measure video delay and add equal video delay) with no feedback so any mistake will result in a lip-sync error in the signal that cannot be detected downstream automatically.

 

The problem starts at content creation and there is very little a broadcaster can do to correct signals that already have lip-sync error when they receive them.

 

Add to this problem the fact that flat screen TV's also delay video ( many 80 to 100 ms) and lip-sync is a moving target often changing beteeen every program and sound almost always arrives before the accompalying image.  If broadcasters over correct it is possible audio may arrive delayed but that's rare.

 

Most people don't consciously notice lip-sync error below about 50 ms and some are even more tolerant and can ignore 100 ms but a study at Stanford over 20 years ago showed even viewers who didn't consciously notice the problem suffered the same negative impact on their perception.  The feelings about the characters they statistically correlated are  the same as we have about people who don't make eye contact with us.

 

All viewers felt the characters were "more agitated, less truthful, less persuasive, etc.so it seems we subconsciously look away from the lip movement to avoid being confronted with the impossible - sound "before' the action that creates the sound - but are left with the same impression as if the charaters were the ones not making eye contact with us.

 

Google "Reeves and Voelker Audio Asynchrony" if you are interested in that research.

 

This also explains why in forums like this some viewers with identical equipment will report lip-sync problems while othres see no problem at all.  Our "threshold of recognition" - the value of error at which we can no longer look far enough away to avoid noticing it - varies tremendously and will drop radically - sometimes to a few milli seconds - as soon as we finally notice it.

 

And then - when finally in our conscious- reducing the error to its former level often does not correct the problem. (You can't un-ring the bell.)  That is to say you might ignore 80 ms error but aftre noticing 100 ms error you might be able to detect a few ms error.

 

It is an insidious problem that can only be truly corrected by adjusting the audio video alignment while watching.

 

I do this with a Felston digital audio delay but other companies like Alchemy2 and Primare (Primare Delay Box) make lip-sync correction products too.

 

If you set all other audio delays that may be offered by your equipment (TV's, AV receivers, and even DVD/BluRay players sometimes have delay settings) to zero and let an external delay provide all delay needed for correction your TV's inherent video delay will normally allow you to correct for arriving audio delay which does happen occassionally.

Nibor99
Member

Nickjoh,

Many thanks indeed for your full explanation of lip sync issues and a potential solution.

I have just done an internet search and found the following company which produces a device to help resolve the issue.

 

http://www.js-technology.com/store/product.php?id_product=21

 

I shall see how my viewing experience with Amazon Prime, and Jeremy Clarkson in particular, pans out and purchase a "lipsync box" if needs be.

 

Once again thank you for taking the trouble to help me out on this issue.

 

Robin

 

 

profile.country.GB.title
NickJoh
Member

That seems like a good price as the Felston DD740  was over twice that amount and both Alchemy2 and the Primare Delay Box are almost twice the Felston's cost.

 

The big difference in those units is they all have a remote control which allows adjustment in 1 ms increments (1/3 ms for the Felston and 1 ms for the others) while watching.

 

If you can run cables to that unit so you can adjust it from a normal viweing distance it may work for you but the fact that it adjustes in 5 ms steps may mean you never feel it is in sync.

 

I say that because I had one of the first few Felston DD340's about 10 years ago and it had a firmware bug that caused it to adjust in 2 ms steps instead of 1 ms and I never felt I could achieve perfect sync.  They caught the bug and recalled all early units and when I got the corrected unit that did adjust in 1 ms steps I felt I could get it in perfect sync.

 

I have since upgraded to their 4 input DD740 and it offers a fine mode that adjusts in 1/3 ms for those who are extremely sensitive but I always use the normal 1 ms mode.  But 5 ms steps would be far to coarse and adjustment for me.

Nibor99
Member

NickJoh,

Once again many thanks for your thoughts on the lipsync issue. I will take them into acount should I feel that I need to buy a lipsync box.

 

I am sure that your comments will be also of great value to others with a similar problem.

 

Cheers

Robin

profile.country.GB.title
Risc0n
Contributor


@Nibor99 wrote:

Hi,

Hoping someone can help.

I have a 2015 Sony android TV - model KD43X8309CBU

Last night I tried Amazon Prime for the first time - terrible lip sync issues!!

 

I use a Canton Soundbase linked optically but even going through the TV speakers I have what seems to be a voice lip sync lag.

 

The TV was updated a few days ago and has the latest firmware.

 

I normally view through Virgin Media and have had no lipsync issues with them.

 

The wifi signal seems OK.

 

Does anyone have any ideas?

 

Many thanks

 

Robin

 

PS just tried another couple of Amazon Prime films these seem OK  The issue seems to be mainly with the Grand Tour Jeremy Clarkson show

 


Yes, horrendous lipsync issues on Grand Tour. Recently ditched my Sony 1050 amp for a new Pioneer VSX-1131 and same problems. The issue is with the stream itself as issue is prevailant on TV too.

profile.country.GB.title
arpwarden
Explorer

I'm getting it to. See my thread here:

 

https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/android-tv/amazon-video-lipsync-creep-on-kd-43xd8088-latest-firmware...

 

I din't post in this one as it was marked as solved when it very definitely isn't. I've also opened a ticket with Sony support about it now as well.

 

**Edit: I have been trying to raise a support ticket about the app and the worst streams with Amazon UK and it's just about impossible to do as far as I can see unless someone else can enlighten me???